Thoughts on Marketing Via Email Lists

Good points re email marketing – from the point of view of a subscriber.

There’s another view – from the publisher’s angle. Email marketing, done a certain way, is all about SEGMENTING an audience by interest. I run (or used to, until recently) over SEVENTY sub-lists… each one for a specific kind of prospect.

Email that goes out to one of such narrowly targeted and defined lists has one purpose – to strengthen the bond. People either like what they get – and stay on it to get more. Or they click UNSUBSCRIBE.

And any savvy email marketer watches the metrics like a hawk. And adjusts their style of emailing to fit their strategy. It differs. No single strategy is ‘right’ for everyone. What matters more is refining one’s approach to be consistent with the overarching strategy – so that over time you are left with an email list made up primarily of enthusiasts, and evangelists.

It takes time, maybe years, for your list to evolve to that point, though there are ways to speed up the process. It’s part-art, part-science.

Just another perspective to email marketing that counter-balances your nice points made from the ‘other side’ :-)

All success
Dr.Mani

I don’t know if email lists are so widely used, to be used as a marketing tool. RSS feeds have grown extensively (like spamming); it makes mailing lists kind of out-of-date, i believe. They are for a specific target group and cannot reach a wider public. In a way, the function like newsgroups. Few, devoted users.
But i agree, if i were to subscribe to any mailing list I would appreciate good content, not too often.

I also hate lists that send out mailings so often that it clogs up my in box. Especially when it’s thin on content and mostly about making a sale. With the too clever for it’s own good subject line and gimmicky approach designed to get attention. One marketing list I was on started repeating articles after only one year! Puh-lease.

The obvious advantage to lists is that there are TONS of folks out there who aren’t very tech savvy and don’t use RSS. They show up on your blog or website, like what they see, but never come back. An email address can be like an insurance policy to prevent that loss. Of course if you hound them with crap, they will leave.

I’ve been struggling with my own list (currently 1,300 subscribers) and what form my newsletter should take now that I write so much content on my blog. I definitely want to use it for announcements of upcoming events like radio appearances and workshops. I also like to reward loyal readers with special introductory prices on teleclasses and workbooks. Not a gimmick price, but a true “early adopter” discount. It just feels right, to echo what you’ve been saying here.

-Sally J.

I’m all for lists, but only if they follow three principles.
1. They are Opt-in, not opt-out.
2. There is an easy unsubscribe… preferably single click.
3. They do not re-sell my information.

Occasionally, for lists that I want to monitor but don’t find overly useful I subscribe to them using a dodgit email address. That email address only keeps messages for a few days, but provides an RSS feed for any that come in which allows me to filter them quickly without getting junk in my email. I don’t subscribe to many lists so its rare I go this route, but it is a useful little tool to have.

- great work on the blog!

Have to say, the comment about The Romantic made me laugh out loud. I have a list that I was mailing to every now and then just to get a sale because I was following the normal IM way of doing things, and I always felt kind of bad about it and eventually just stopped mailing it. You are not alone in thinking that some of the way things are done that we are taught by big-name marketers are kind of sleazy, and I think the best way is for each of us to find their own way in which their conscience seems clearest.

I’ve unsubscribed from tons of lists, too. I don’t like emails that are thinly disguised sales pitches, and I don’t like getting them three or four times a week.

The two marketing newsletters that I still subscribe to appear once a month — occasionally a second time, if something special is going on. They always contain useful content, they generally point me toward a free product (not the writer’s) that might be useful, and they have only one sales pitch per newsletter. I actually look forward to getting these! I buy their products, too.

I’m still trying to figure out how I will use a list as a marketer. I think, to feel comfortable with selling that way, I’ll have to write a newsletter that I’d like to read, and only send it out as often as I would enjoy receiving it. Will that make sales? I don’t know, but I’m going to try it.

If you’re not delivering value (and “spamming people to death because my product REALLY ROCKS” doesn’t qualify), don’t do it. It’s all about customer benefits–real benefits, not just messaging. The message needs to describe something real.

And there’s no point–like you said, people just unsubscribe. Why build a list just to strip mine it? A quality list, though, is a good thing–just like a nice blog subscriber list. Godin pretty much writes my play book on this one.

Have something valuable to say and people will listen. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

There might be a core group of desperate people out there who will buy almost anything that tells them they can get rich quick, but I’m not interested in that market.

Godin, as usual, is reading our minds–he has a post on just this issue today (not sure if your setup will allow hyperlinks, if not just go to seth’s blog & see the post on self promotion).

http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2007/12/self-promotion.html

Hi Caroline,

Yours’ is a voice that needs to be heard. It’s nice that you’ve built up a bit of a following before you reached the point of going off on a rant. Rants are always more fun when people are actually listening.

In reading your post, I find myself sitting here nodding my head in agreement. I had an autoresponder account at one point. But, the more I thought about, the more I just couldn’t think of anything I’d want to tell people via email, that I couldn’t, or wouldn’t say on my blog.

Just to add my own thoughts on lists, I view them as an additional means to disseminate information with the added value to the list owner of being able to also generate additional revenue.

I think with lists, just the same as with blogs, social networks or any other platforms a marketer includes in their toolbox, it’s all about how you utilize them.

With my own email lists (I manage about 8 in different fields), I restrict them all to 1 or 2 maximum monthly mailings, all are opt-in/easy opt-out, and I never send out a mailing for the sole purpose of marketing something. There has to be something of interest or value that I want to say to readers to prompt a mailing from me, and any marketing included is always a secondary element.

It’s fair to ask then why even use a list? I could post everything on a blog or web page and do away with the lists.

But, not everyone who wants specific information on a topic has the time–or is willing–to visit my blog or site everyday. And last I heard it’s estimated that less than 12% of blog visitors subscribe to RSS feeds across the board, due in large part to a lack of understanding among the masses on how to use RSS feeds and readers. This is increasing thanks to a lot of web 2.0 widgets and such that make it easier, but it’s still a very low number.

So I see having a list, if used with care and discretion, as a value added service to my visitors who want the “key” information on a topic from me.

I just don’t think the use of any platform by marketers is itself inherently sleazy; it’s how the marketer makes use of the platform that determines that.

There are lists, damned lists and statistics, to coin a phrase weakly.

Lists are one way of gently reminding busy folk that you’re still around.

Damned lists are those pesky, link-filled “buy from me or DIE” legal spam.

Statistics, as far as lists go, are the metrics (mentioned previously by Dr. Mani). These are my favorite.
I’ve used lists to measure the effectiveness of print advertising. (nota bene: it sucks)

Email will be with us for a long time. There are two simple reasons: it’s cheap and easy.

The challenge for email marketers is to resist the urge to sell to an increasingly antipathic audience.

Cheers,

Mitch

*uhmmm* ….
hint: if your’re using feedburner and its E-Mail-option, .. well, what you do … then you do have a list indeed :)

You use aweber not because of the software, you use it because you want to be sure 99.99% of your emails don’t automatically end up in a spam folder. That’s where the value is, that’s the difficult part of newsletters. Aweber has people working all day to make sure people get their emails, that ISP’s dont block the newsletter. Phplist simply doesn’t do that.

I would agree with that. I use Emma, and about 40% of what I send is caught in a spam folder before anyone sees it–and 100% of those folks double-opted in. Aweber has the best reputation for managing relationships with ISPs.

The few lists that I subscribe to have good solid content in addition to the sales pitch. The items that are being pitched are in line with the content, but the content isn’t “forced”, meaning that it isn’t a masked sales pitch.

I don’t understand why lists are pushed as much as they are by the IM gurus. Many of them supposedly have huge lists, but I have to believe that there is a lot of churn in them. After getting a couple of months worth of nothing but sales pitches, I unsubscribe.

There are some blogs that I subscribe to that also have lists, but they only use those for special purposes. My preference, however, is for RSS feeds.

It would seem that there is a place for mailing lists, but with the advent of Web 2.0 and RSS, it seems to be more niche based (no pun intended).

Most of my friends send messages through facebook these days – but you know, I still love getting email. So I actually get quite excited when I one of the lists I subscribe to sends me something good. But hey, I’m also a crazy person who loves getting junk mail (again, starved for real letters…).

The point is though it has to be something good. You ARE SO ON THE BALL about those annoying story sales letters – I know as soon as I start reading them that my day is not going to be any better for having read it. And then at the end of all that fluff, they want you to buy something. Grrrr!

I’m pretty new to these types of IM, though not web publishing and I’ve only recently been introduced to the concept of the presell and I do find it worrying. I don’t have a problem with affiliate links or bloggers making money, but I think there is a big difference if the purpose of the review is to sell rather than to inform (ie the sale is only a by-product) because that could influence the content of the review and its honesty. Whatever you say about your reviews doing the presell, they have the air of honesty about them because I quite frankly believe that you can’t help but be honest. That’s why we all love your blog!

Maybe a blog’s eventual integrity comes down to the driving motivation behind the blog – is it to publish (and why not make money doing what you love) or is it to purely to make money (through blogging because hey, that’s where the money is).

Do you see yourself as primarily a marketer creating content or a publisher who needs to market?

Back to the email list – if you don the publishing cap first (and only put on the marketing cap after you’ve created the main content) and craft a newsletter that provides real value (even if it is just a summary of the best of your blog for the month), there’s nothing sleazy in that – I know it would be an email that I would look forward to and it could well make my day.

:-) Kitty

It’s about content for me too.

Eventually I want to do an on line course. So I’m interested to hear the discussions regarding php vs Aweber.

I don’t subscribe much – and am very quick to unsubscribe – 2 or 3 posts that are just sales pitches and they’re gone.

amazing. just amazing. Like nothing ever happened (hopefully I am not reminding you). Great post, Your Back!!

I was wondering though. When I (or anyone else) leaves a comment, we have to leave our email address. So, is there not a way to collect those emails? Not that you would sell them, hopefully not. But, maybe you could put in an extra blog via email, just for your commenter’s. Just a small idea.

Woa… email lists…

I subscribe to several industry specific newsletters that provide great content and keep me up to date easily. I don’t mind if the adverts are spliced in there in images (I don’t download the images so I only see the beef of the newsletter). One thing that irks me about them is that they also throw in the “sponsored” advertising email too. If I unsubscribe – then I lose the other. They got me!

We ask our website visitors if they want to sign up for our newsletter and we only send it out every other month so it’s not too intrusive and we don’t sell their names.

As for my “unsubscribe finger”, I find that if I get more than one email from them in a day – they’re gone.

Ahh Caroline, you are going through all the same things I went through as I delved into the world of IM.

Long sales pages – god they are annoying, how can anyone buy from them!

Email newsletters with pitch after pitch – what’s the point?

I’ve learned to love the email list and respect the long sales page.

The most important part of all this is that whatever you do that you genuinely want to help people and your content reflects that. True, you want to get paid somehow for helping others, but you can do both at the same time and make a win-win relationship.

Many months ago I subscribed from all but a few email lists because, as you state, they were full of pitch after pitch for yet another make money online product.

The good thing about going through this experience is it shows what you can do to stand out from the crowd.

All that being said – I have to agree Caroline – add an email newsletter to your blog and do it today. I waited way too long to start building my list and it’s one of the biggest regrets I have from my early days of blogging.

Nice post Caroline,

I would advise against phpList. I used it before and you have a great opportunity to be marked as spamer and run into issues with host when you use self-hosted mail list. No matter how you email your subscribers – someone will makr it as spam, get enough of those and you run into serious issues. Believe me – invest in aweber.

Caroline, I liked your blog before, but now I’m loving it! What you’re saying reflects my feelings exactly.

I have to say that I think a lot of Afilliate Marketing is a little sleazy and I’m having a little trouble getting into it. That said, here are a couple of points for why mailing lists are okay:

1. It seems that the vast majority of potential customers are Afilliate Marketers (or wannabees) themselves, so they accept (and expect) the use of mailing lists.

2. Affiliate Marketing isn’t doing anything that the Sales & Marketing Departments of large companies don’t do as normal practice (in fact most companies buy mailing lists rather than build them).

I’ll admit it sticks in my throat a little and I don’t have a mailing list yet either, but then I’ve never been good with people trying to sell to me (even in a clothes shop) and I’ve never worked in Sales.

Let’s face it: AM is really just Sales and Marketing. If you’d be comfortable in a Sales job, then you’ll have no problem with Affiliate Marketing. I know your background is in development, so maybe it’s a bigger adjustment for the likes of you and me. In fact, I’ve decided to lead with my strengths by offering custom WordPress plugin services and leave AM for another day. Services won’t lead to ‘passive’ income, but it’s more likely to make me money quickly and boost my blog so I’m in a better position later.

Anyway, what’s spam and what’s marketing is largely in the eye of the beholder. If (as Doug suggests above) you build an opt-in list, with an easy unsubscribe option and keep people’s details private, then I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong – as long as you continue to promote things you honestly believe in, which i’m sure you’ll do.

Great post. Keep telling it like you see it!

Hi Caroline,

Just found your blog! Hey nice layout, super easy to follow and top content.

I’m on board! RSS signed up.

Cheers,
30 Day Man
http://www.30dayman.com

Quick caveat – running an email list is NOT a popularity contest… unless you’re polling ONLY your subscribers!

Worldly wisdom is good – but does NOT apply to YOUR email list. Test EVERYTHING. Study your metrics like a maniac. Tweak whatever isn’t working. Ignore things OTHERS say works with their list – if it doesn’t work for you.

And last, but by no means the least important – remember, She who tries to please all… pleases none!

Happy email marketing – and listen to Yaro, start building your list today.

All success
Dr.Mani

Hi Caro,

hm, good point about the subsciptions. I know that problem. There seems to be so much good information and content on the internet and we want to have it all. It is easy to be overwhelmed with all the information. But after a while you find out which information is really helpful for you and everything else will be dropped.
I think that is quite normal.
Still I think there is nothing wrong with doing affiliate marketing for a product you really believe in.
E.g. Aweber is great product which I use myself and I do recommend it to others with and without an affiliate link.

Hi Caroline

You make some great points here. It’s a fine balance between providing great content and ’selling’.

Re: the long salesletter, I tested conversions of short against long. People preferred the long one!

Re: Aweber, I have to say that I signed up with them straight away and don’t regret it. One thing – if you do decide to start a list, it’s a pain to try to migrate that list to another autoresponder provider. Often you have to get your subscribers to opt in all over again.

@Sally, I don’t really see an email list as an alternative for those who do not use RSS because the content would differ – there is an option to sign up to the RSS via email, but that is not what I am discussing here.

@Todd, that’s my problem exactly. To offer some kind of newsletter on the blog that had any real value it would have to be something other than the current content I put out, and I can’t think of anything so I’m not going to force it unless something inspires me.

@Jacky, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that option because anyone on that feedburner list has only signed up for my blog posts, nothing else. If I harvested the addresses in that list for other purposes that would effectively be spamming.

@Refiel, yes I agree on your point on AWeber. However I remember when I first started with this blog, I had $0 income and I felt uncomfortable at the idea of spending $20 here, $47 there, $97 there and so on – it all adds up and when you are not earning it’s painful.

For a complete newbie, they’ll probably screw up their first list anyway so I think it’s best to learn the ropes on a free one and then switch to a good quality paid service once they have established that list marketing is a good fit for them.

@Evan, I’m even faster than that. If the first thing I get from a new list gives me the slightest bad feeling in my gut, I unsubscribe immediately.

@serge, oddly enough, writing that painful post a couple of days ago seemed to let all the anger out and leave it out there and I’ve actually felt much better since!

@Yaro, the trouble is, I really don’t have any content for a list for this blog!

@Stephen, you may have hit on something there – I am not comfortable with selling, never have been. I’ve had two businesses in the past, both were mail order companies and in both I got orders via my catalogue. I didn’t have to go out there and promote other than place ads in print magazines. No hard sell. That’s kind of like pull-selling rather than push-selling. I don’t like being pushy :) I’d rather pull the sales towards me hehe.

Does any one have a list of all the people who have blogged about lists today? As I should be on it!

(was that subtle enough… NO!)

There is nothing wrong with lists. Lists are necessary. But it has to be the right sort of list. And as everyone has said, the list needs to be fed with the right sort of stuff, in the right sort of way.

Now that is an art. It’s the art of communication of course. Something which Caroline does very well of course.

Salesmen who think they can just blanket spew dross will not get far quickly. But it is a numbers game and maybe they like poker…

So how do I get on this list of list haters again?

Aweber and GetResponse ARE worth it. There are others like them. They both have relationships with ISPs and do work hard to beat ISPs spam filters and you don’t want to risk your web domain name, against spam reports.

There is a free way that works which we discuss on BFN. I’ll email you it Caroline. (I don’t want everyone jumping on it and trashing it.)

The real thing to remember, is it is NOT a “list”. It is what we used to call in old school a “client database”.
The difference is, you have a relationship with clients. They are not faceless numbers of “targets”.

Lists are just a channel. Bottom line it depends if you are a pushy salesman, or a real marketeer (listening back to what people want).

Like copywriting, list marketing is an art. You can get machines to do it, but that doesn’t mean it will work, or that it is right.

IMHO lists are fine. It’s the people behind them that can make them suck, or not.

Peter

Having used both paid 3rd party list services like Aweber and self hosted options over the years, I personally prefer the self hosted now.

My associates call me a control freak for it, but I’ve simply come to not trust having the control or access to my customer’s and client’s information in a 3rd party’s hands.

I know there are some highly reputable companies out there, Aweber being one of them, but when I ask someone to share their personal details with me I take the responsibility of protecting their information seriously, and if it’s stored on someone else’s network I have no control over how secure that data really is.

There are risks to running your own list. Especially with being reported as a spammer regardless of how careful you are to follow the rules. People do forget sometimes that they’ve signed up to a certain list and can be quick to report a legit mailing as spam.

I see this like anything else with running a business though, it’s just something you have to deal with when it occurs and if you have everything in order you can deal with it. I’ve been blocked by numerous ISP’s over the years for legit mailings to opt-in recipients, and have never had a problem getting quickly removed from blacklistings after proving the mailing was legal and requested by all who received it.

Basically, for me it boils down to control rather than money, but the money is a valid reason to start your list as a self hosted option early on too, since you can always move to a 3rd party paid option later on if you want.

@Scott
I’m totally with you on control, but the real issue is what is your “deliverablility” like?
Do you track your click thrus accurately or know from a follow up contact?
What is your reject and bounce rate like?

Also as someone who lost a domain because of “1″ spam complaint apparently zero tolerance hosting realy does mean even literally 1), I am also reluctant to DIY these days.

A colleague did an email out yesterday. It was only 100 and odd. All people he had had two way email with previously.
45% did not get through. When I checked what he had sent on Aweber, it was only 1.8 out of five, so it wasn’t the content.

He’d sent it out on his personal BT account and third party spam filters like messagelabs and spamfilter decided that the didn’t like BT that hour.

It’s RIDICULOUS having to pay to send email, but it’s all about deliverability.

If it doesn’t get there, it doesn’t matter who sends it :-)

JM0CW.
Peter

1. Now let us all get to the point.
2. Everything you have seen online that is legit is right.
3. You must have heard of this saying… Whether you think you can do it, you are right. Whether you think you cannot do it, you are also right.
4. While we are here debating email, many are changing lives with email as well as some are out there destroying lives with email.
5. Ever heard of SCAM emails? Fell for one before, so you know how bad that can be. Do not capitalize on that… let us move on… the story gets better.
6. Ever heard of life changing emails? I have received tons and tons of them in my life since I got online over ten (10) years ago.
7. Now, back to base.
8. I have subscribed to countless number of emails in my life than I can remember – when you are eager to learn and yearning for knowledge and wisdom, you have and probably need to do that.
9. What if I say, I hardly unsubscribe from any? Shock you? Do not be shocked – there is a way to handle it.
10. When you have a system in place that easily filters all that comes your way, you become absolutely and totally free of all the worries that people talk about when it comes to electronic mails.
11. The fastest way to avoid trouble is not to have it in the first place so how do you do that with email?
12. When you are trying to unsubscribe from some emails, you only end up subscribing to other ones, have you not noticed?
13. Blocking them makes it harder too!
14. Just filter…. And with a single click you get rid of all the ones you do not need in your face or life!
15. Not everyone understand RSS, not everyone like to come to your site, not everyone likes your marketing pitch, not everyone even like to know about you but you know what… SOME DO!
16. Those who care to listen and read from you, feed them! If you do not do that, it is not good.
17. Do you know something about knowing what is good and not doing it? It is SIN.
18. It is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
19. Why did I bring out that excerpt, because TRUTH is hard.
20. You need to search your heart and mind and ask yourself this question each time you do something on planet earth because this is the only opportunity you will ever have on planet earth to make a difference and you will not have another fill in the time and space of the chain of life – IS THIS THE BEST USE OF MY TIME?
21. You cannot ask that question all the time and get it wrong. And if you do get it wrong, then you are probably going to get yourself back in line somewhere along the line if you keep asking yourself the question.
22. I personally have tried all the mailing list packages out there if you ask, you just name it. From the free ones to the paid ones, I probably have an account with all of them. But I have come to one conclusion…
23. Why do you want to have a mailing list?
24. To sell something? Go to eBay!
25. To encourage people? Fine!
26. To share stories? Better still.
27. To showcase pages of your site? To who?
28. Whatever your reason for getting a mailing list, make it sure you know WHY and that you stick to the WHY!
29. For one, if you join any of my mailing lists, you will see that I am always looking for ways to talk to you as a friend, if you are not getting something from it, it is better to stop it.
30. When you are trying to keep a bad relationship, you eventually hurt yourself and everyone around and about you.
31. I only keep a mailing list for my friends, and I get feed back from time to time which I continually adjust to.
32. It all goes back to the question… WHY?
33. By the way, not to sell this page but just as an insight, if you do not like to use a mailing list, why get one if you like to sell things online. Look at how this person operates and make sales without mailing lists. (conversationdomination[dot]com/rankings.html) If you have been scratching your head for so long, you have heard it all at TDC and if you did nothing about all you learned, that is the difference between those who see results and those who see no result. ACTION TAKERS WIN!
34. Like Caroline said, there is no need to be pushy about these things, share if you like or sell if you like but make it plain from the word go. Pull and make friends than push people to shopping carts.
35. When you see me ask for any kind of payment, it is simply to maintain the service not for some outrageous sales pitch.
36. I noticed something on Dr. Mani’s site today where he offered to help people with their blog posts for free and then the next day he corrected the technical error to let people know that it will be for a token fee. Why did I bring that in? Because, sometimes, people just do not like to have you help them for free!
37. I sent you the flagship page of my domains in one of my recent posts Caroline, hope you saw and read it. You will notice something.
38. I shared that post with my list way back 2006 and people did not take it serious because sometimes we do not value what we get for free. The same information now sells on my site and people are getting blessed by it.
39. There are many ways to use all what we learn online and take for granted. The tons and tons of knowledge that is being given away even here on Caroline’s blog is the type that some have paid thousands of money for in seminars and trainings and courses et al.
40. What else can I say? It just burns my heart when people just do not pay attention to details about all they are doing in life. This is the only life time journey we will live. Is it not right to always ask, WHY AM I HERE? and then go on to take positive action towards maximizing all the blessings and favours that come our way?
41. I think enough has been said.
42. From today, if you are going to do anything online, make sure you do it with the intention in the link on my name today. Sorry to point people in the direction of some personal beliefs but read the passage that you were asked to READ and then know that…
43. The joy of doing good may be the only reward we receive—but it’s worth it!
44. I may never pass this way (planet earth) again (a second time) but I think this should make a difference.
45. Remain blessed and a blessing and we shall communicate again soon if God is willing!
46. Highest regards to all,
47. Olakunle Solomon Fatoye.

As for me, I subscribe to every list on the online world I can find, especially every internet marketing one. Why? I love gifts and most of the guys who have a list give a free gift once or twice in a year at least.

I even have a separate email for all the subscriptions, as my main email will get flooded if I subscribed to 50+ lists using it…

@Olakunle Solomon Fatoye: You said all the right things.
Item 24 reminded me of something I read recently, which I’ll paraphrase here:

“You are not going to take over the Internet by selling ANYTHING! Amazon.com and eBay.com have already sewed up that niche.”

At face value, it seems that the comment is telling us to take our toys and go home. Yet, a brief study of the statement (admittedly tough to do out of context) reveals that entrepreneurs simply have to set their sights in a new direction. Not every hot new website is about selling something. There are worlds to conquer, which lead to income, but we just won’t be conquering the “sell stuff online” world.

So, maybe we all need to stop trying to duplicate the over-saturated tactics and come up with new ways to “start the conversation”.

We know in our heart of hearts that we want to sell stuff. But, really, why?

Why can’t we attract wealth in a more meaningful fashion – in ways that help our fellow humans?

If all we are going to do is peddle info to the never-ending horde of newbies, what’s the point?

Cheers,

Mitch

It sounds like you’re having a crisis of faith about marketing. I used to think marketing was “bad.” However, consider this definition: marketing gets valuable products and services to the people who can benefit from them.

My phrase is not poetry. However, it hopefully gets the point across that marketing only allows you to present an offer to someone. Whether they accept the offer is up to them. I have a newsletter and provide value to my readers. I am helping them optimize, market and profit from their websites.

When I have clients in the green home energy solutions, I am proud to help the company make a connection with an interested client. When a client buys a product, it means a little less energy is wasted.

When I help an entrepreneur with their site, I help them with their goal to have work-life balance.

I don’t work with just anyone and that’s why this works for me. I pick and choose clients and choose those that offer products that align with my beliefs and offer value to the world.

All my best to you,
Deborah

Ah. The marketing dip. I know it well.

Caroline, sorry to hear about your loss and general disillusionment. Let me try and put some things in perspective for you.

Not everyone does black hat marketing, not everyone is a bad guy. Yes, you get sleazy marketing and you get great permission based marketing (Seth Godin style). The trick is to choose what you feel comfortable with and stick with your principles. Forget about everyone else.

Personally I don’t like black hat marketing. It’s too short term and gets you a bad reputation. Pure white hat is ok to begin with but it won’t give you the edge long term against competitors. Most long term marketers go 40% grey as it’s easier to apologise than to ask for permission (not for list building) and it’s easier to square it with yourself morally. Just don’t step over the thin grey line.

Email marketing. Opt-ins are all about permission. Give good value to your prospects (free first part of a pdf or video) and ask them permission if they want to sign up for more. Also known as a reverse opt-in. Watch the Stompernet lauch for more insight into this. Also read Seth Godin’s book ‘Permission Marketing’ for more insight into this. Be vigilant about permission and you won’t get sleazy.

Also think of email as a breathing in and out process. You breath out five parts value (content, content, content) then breath in as you give out a pre-sell offer for a product you like and rake in the commissions. 5:1 works like a charm. People won’t begrudge you a sales pitch if they’re getting great value from you.

The money is not in the damn list. For Pete’s sake, why does everyone get this wrong! The money is in the relationship to the list (see Jeff Walker’s stuff). If you have no relationship, you have no list. You develop a relationship with your list by creating, communicating and delivering value to that list. So give some good free valuable content up front and then people will buy your stuff because they love what you gave them for free (See Eben Pagan’s ‘moving the free line’ videos).
You feel good about it, they feel good about it.

Finally, why not stop being an internet marketer? No. Seriously. I’m not joking.

Instead, become a businesswoman who uses internet marketing as a means to an end which is to bring in more customers. The thing is, internet marketing is inherently vacuous. It becomes less vacuous when you bear in mind the golden rule:

“Marketing is a set of processes for creating, communicating and delivering value to customers and for managing customer relationships.”

This is so important I’m just going to say it again.

“Marketing is a set of processes for creating, communicating and delivering value to customers and for managing customer relationships.”

Unless you are delivering value, creating value for your relationships then you aren’t marketing. Ok, so you can add some value to other people’s products but then you start to think to yourself ‘why haven’t I got my own product?’. ‘Why am I just creating layers of value around other people’s stuff?’

Why indeed?

So why not stop being an internet marketer. Become a business woman who uses internet marketing. Locate a niche you love, do some market research & testing and prove it converts. Build out your content (cd’s, dvd’s etc) and then market it the way you’ve been taught. (I recommend looking up the Thirty Day Challenge 2005 and 2006 for information on how to build out a product).

With your own product you can get affiliates to promote it for you and add layers of value yourself if you want (blog, seo). But at the end of the day you have a ‘product you can be proud of’. Then you’ll lose that empty feeling as you create a product in a niche you can call your own. A house that Caroline built.

I’m smiling as I write this as I’ve been right where you’ve been. You just need a bit of encouragement. So here it is. You’re a good writer with a sharp mind and a conscience and I guarantee you’ll come up with something good.

Good luck!

-Mike
CTO, Director
Wordtracker

Oh. One last thing. Aweber is the perfect low priced email autoresponder tool at the moment. Don’t even hesitate to shell out for this service. It’ll pay for itself many times over.

-Mike

@Mike, thanks Mike, lots to think about there :) As you may have seen from a more recent post I do indeed need to evaluate how I am going to provide value.