Maximising Profits - Is That Really What You Want?

Sorry, but I disagree. I like blogging too, but something is your hobby doesn’t mean one should leave money on the table. The thing is that long sales letters work. period. You’ll come to know one day that being all “good” on the internet just doesn’t cut it in any type of business, including the internet.

Creating hype, promising lots of stuff and capturing emails and having a long sales letter have worked and will always work…

Do you think it matters whether you like it or not? Most internet marketers don’t like long sales letter. But that doesn’t mean they won’t do it…

@Ruchir, your response is exactly the kind of response I would expect from about 95% of Internet Marketers, which is what made me write this post in the first place - I know I do not hold the popular opinion. But it’s okay to disagree, the world would be boring if everybody agreed on everything!

Hi Caroline,
Seen your macropost on Twitter. I’m curious to see how this works!

Must say i agree with the sales letter, but then I’m not an IMer and not exactly your general surfer either so I probably don’t match the target group for internet marketing.

Anyway, giving the CommentLuv plugin something to test.
(the result will be in swedish though…)

Anders’s last blog post..Mecenat läckan

Trust me to get the plugin wrong…
Anyway I had read the previous post, and I can’t help both agreeing and disagreeing with you.
I agree on the principle (which is why I am not monetizing my blog) but I get income from my work, so I’m not really doing business with the blog.
If you intend to really do a lot of business online, you may well have to comply with the prevailing rules, if only for a given length of time.
If you want to do business differently, you are going to have to come up with a powerful and innovative alternative. Why not? Just because something has worked for a long time, and everyone is comfortable with it, doesn’t mean something else will not work. It might take a lot of thinking, but you might be able to make it work.

Nadine’s last blog post..Take A Quiz On This Week’s Events (In France And Abroad)

I totally agree and have been confounded for years now as to how these things are actually working for people.

I buy far too much online myself, but I read only two parts of 99.9% of them, what is in the product and how much it is - and nothing irritates me more than when these mile long letters don’t even include the price.

I know it’s all about tracking and selling etc but how they can be effective totally baffles me since most are created using a set formula and are therefore almost all the same.

But pretty much anyone who is successful swears by their effectiveness, go figure. I guess they need to have something to make it all seem exciting and worthwhile on the whole (maybe the whole point is to get the adrenalin going when a person is searching for the info that they want to know about the product, making it mysterious and unavailable to make us want it more, hehehe :0)

btw, I have two sales letter pages that I was coached in creating and as far as sales letters go, I think they are quite good, but they have done no more for me, even less actually, than a blog post or personal referal to a product, those are the pages that have actually made me the sales that I have made, or affiliate links from articles.

Not that that is advice at all, there is a lot to consider, but all in all, my sales letters have done nothing for me in selling, and I don’t buy from them as a rule when shopping (I buy from people I know and trust, sales letters don’t seem personal either).

My take is that a sales letter in some form is necessary, but I like short, skimmable and to the point with product info, some testimonials are good and price - preferably with a discount :0) Bonuses are sometimes good but for the most part overkill and not related to the product - if it’s a good freebie that complements the product, that’s good. An affiliate program or reseller opp is always nice too.

I have two email courses, the sign up for one is a fairly long sales letter and the other is the opt in box and a short paragraph - the short one has far more sign ups. I am going to test a short one for both and see what happens.

That said, they must work for some people and maybe I just need more traffic (don’t we all!)

I’ve rambled on, but it really has been a question that I’ve wondered about often myself.

btw, I saw you on twitter announcing your commentluv plugin, I think I’ll try it too :0) I’ve been trying to get nested/threaded comments to work but haven’t been able to.

Jan - queenofkaos’s last blog post..Personal Productivity - Do You Peck or Dig In?

Heya Caroline,

I agree wholeheartedly - I’m allergic to long sales letters. They just have a look that screams FAKE! However I guess we’re looking at it from the standpoint of 1. people who understand them, and 2. people who regularly visit beautifully presented sites.

Your average Joe User who arrives at one probably barely knows how to operate his browser, and thinks the geocities site his Aunt Betsy made looks great. Anyone in that category probably likes the garish colour changes, big fonts and actually believes the testimonials are from real people.

Hi Caroline,

Stick to your way of doing things. I’m really glad there is someone doing things your way in the blogging-about-blogging part of the blogosphere.

I recently realised why I was having such a battle with procrastination for some tasks. It was because for the first time I am doing something only for money (I’ve lived an unusual and priveleged life - though my income has always been small). For me it is just so draining. So, as quickly as possible I want to make my income from doing what I love - this has been a quest for me for the last fifteen years. My hope is that blogging will be at least part of the answer.

Re testing. Testing can only test existing options. If you find a new way of doing something people will always tell you that there are better ways. I think you may be pioneering a new way of doing things. Who knows it may end up with better results.

As you’ve probably guessed I too hate long sales letters and won’t do them however effective they are.

Keep up the way you’re going. I for one am following your story closely.

Evan Hadkins’s last blog post..Diss’ing Love?

Doh! Forgot to check “Notify me of followup comments via e-mail”

:P

Hi Caroline,

Have you come across marketingexperiments.com? They do some great research into what works and what doesn’t. It’s free to subscribe and well worth it in my opinion.

A while ago they tested long copy versus short copy and in their tests long copy outperformed.
http://www.marketingexperiments.com/improving-website-conversion/long-copy-short-copy.html

What I took from it though was that it’s important to try and understand the reasons behind it. People are anxious about ordering anything and need to have that anxiety removed in ways such as getting all their questions answered, feeling that they can trust the company/individual, being able to navigate their way through the order process etc.

I hate the typical long sales letter too and they don’t work for me. However you can research why they do work a lot of the time and then use that information to come up with an alternative. And as everyone always stresses, test, test, test.

Christine Parfitt’s last blog post..Format For Local Business Results Changed

I asked someone, what’s the deal with these long sales letters and the answer i received is that “they work” I have to agree with you. What is amazing is that they run counter to what many “guru” marketing people have said in the last few years about integrity between the company and the consumer. I would like to think that I made money because people really knew what it was they were buying.

Glad you brought it up.

Thank you so much for your post. I couldn’t agree more. I dislike those long sales pages so much, that I will not buy something from one of them, no matter how good it is. There is just an air of dishonesty with them, in my opinion, and I will never do business like that. I do not care if I am leaving money on the table. My life is not about money. I am happy with my income now, I know it will grow, and it will be honestly. I commend you for going against the flow, and taking the road less traveled. Everyone does it now, and thinks it will always work, but when someone creative finds something that works better everyone will start doing that. You have to go against the flow to be the creative one that finds new and better ways to do things though.

Wow! I absolutely agree with you. Long sales letters get one response from me…delete. I am certain long sales letters have worked for many “gurus” but what many never seem to admit, is what their refund percentages are. I have purchased so much crap and have wasted way too long on desperately searching for an honest road of learning; either paying for it or free but the bottom line for me is integrity, genuine caring and truth of what is being said and or sold. You will make it Caroline by following your own path to your income needs by being honest and forthright.

Without writing a letter instead of a comment I will say that after nearing three years of reading those long sales letters and buying many of the products I feel I have finally found the person, you Caroline, and your site is the very first I have RRS and I am encouraged and excited. Thank You and keep up your honesty, spirit and great content. Your income will come from these traits.

I think that if you work hard (but not over-do it), avoid short cuts, and enjoy doing what you do, then things will go well.

Eamon’s last blog post..The Museum of Brands, Packaging and Advertising (London)

While long form sales letters may work, I think people will grow tired of them, just like they did with banner ads, and they’ll stop being effective at some point.

I really don’t think that 95% of the people who use them truly test them, or they don’t test every aspect.

The underlying principles of the really well-crafted sales letters are, in my completely wild-hair opinion, the part that works. It’s about speaking to emotional drivers, supporting that with rational argument, overcoming objections, and using some graphic support (but it doesn’t have to be giant red headlines and fake highlighting) to create skimmable content since most people don’t read carefully (esp. on the Web).

Sonia Simone’s last blog post..Thriving in the Age of Conversation

I totally agree with you Carolyn. Long sales letters are a complete turn off - how come the rest of internet writing is about brevity, to the point, keep the user interested or they will go - and then suddenly I am supposed to read 2000 words on a product! Give me the facts give me the price - end of story. Oh and the only sales letters which are very ,very long with fake testimonials and really bad fonts all seem to be about internet marketing! The info products selling real info in other fields tend to be well written, short and well-laid out - coincidence?
And yes most of us from IT gave good paying day jobs so we didn’t have to do b..ll..t regardless of whether its from real bosses or virtual marketing “wisdom” - I totally agree 100% with you on this one.

Caroline, my thoughts on this subject are that if you really don’t like using long form sales copy then you absolutely shouldn’t!

My basic reasoning is that if you don’t like doing it then odds are you won’t put your best efforts into it if you force yourself, so what you create ultimately won’t convert well anyway.

Even though long form sales copy typically works best, that’s still only if the copy itself is of high quality.

In my opinion, if you’ll create better material generating it in some other format for presentation then that’s probably going to be more effective for you in the long run.

The only thing I’ll add for both informational value and to address some of the comments I’ve just read here though is that I believe the long form sales letter should be embraced rather than instantly distrusted by consumers.

Why? Because by design it basically forces sellers to put more information out on the table which consumers can then use to make their purchasing decisions.

Sure sellers are also going to use that extra room for adding more sales copy too, but there’s also going to be far more basic information about the product in a long format than in a short one to fill the space.

In my mind, to not trust an offer just because it’s in a long letter format is like saying you’d be more willing to purchase from a marketer if they told you less about the product but presented it in a different style. That just seems like a crazy way of making purchasing decisions.

Personally, I want as much information as possible before parting with my money. If that means I have to weed through a little more “upselling” along the way so be it, because in the end I’m still getting more practical information about the product and can make a better informed choice on whether or not to buy it.

Scott Bannon’s last blog post..Traffic Reviews

I agree with you on the long sales letters issue. They might work in general, but on me the effect is similar to the effect on Christopher, Ben and Kathy.

I will never buy a product if it is presented with one of those endless, hyped sales pages.

I notice that long sales letter is for rather newbie Internet marketeers who have difficulty in convincing others to buy their products.

Established Internet Marketeers nowadays just make a short landing page / salescopy with free stuff (ebook, 5-day-email-course, etc..)

They then quickly ask for your email, before downloading the free stuff.

Then they will haunt you and your email for the rest for your life…

(Thats why I have a second junk email used specifically for this purpose)

I hate sales letters they turn me off the product immediately.
I don’t think they are as successful as they used to be because they are everywhere and they are all the same. I think people should start to do things differently. The last product I bought was on a reccommendation from a blog not a sales letter. I think it’s down to how good your product is and how well known you are in the niche and that’s what equals success. There’s nothing wrong in standing up for what you believe in and not going with the crowd, if we all did everything the same then the interent would be a very boring place. And it’s the people that do things different that catch my eye.

I’d rather have honesty anyday over a mile long sales letter!

@Scott: I don’t (always) distrust the content of long sales letters, it’s more the presentation that grates. It’s like those adverts on the TV that scream at you, flash BIG headlines up quickly and use garish combinations of red and yellow.

They just aesthetically offend, and the worst sales letters manage to fill 10 pages without giving any concrete, specific examples of the skills they claim to be offering in their product.

The problem with these letters is that I find it impossible to relate to the sender or the product; they might have my name at the top, they look so impersonal that I simply don’t feel that they are written to me.

They might turn me off, but I’m sure many people buy into them, if they come at the right time. That’s what selling is about: offering a prospective customer a product that will meet, or appear to meet, their current need.

I really should catch up on all the comments before adding one…

“If you find a new way of doing something people will always tell you that there are better ways. I think you may be pioneering a new way of doing things. Who knows it may end up with better results.”
@Evan: I think you’re onto something here. Caroline’s approach to marketing brings to mind the Cluetrain Manifesto, a good if sometimes repetitive read. The whole point of blogging is that it’s your personal voice, and a long sales letter, by it’s very by-the-book nature is impersonal.

—

Also, perhaps another reason we all cringe at long sales letters despite their studied success, is that every man and his dog trying to sell something uses the long sales letter, while only a fraction of a percent of those people are any good at writing good, trust inspiring copy.

@Nadine, yes that’s my thinking - just because method A works, doesn’t mean that method B won’t, or C, D, E etc. I don’t think there is a limit to the ways in which people can be successful online and believing that you have to follow a proven follow is narrow minded imo.

@Jan, yeah it irritates me too when they don’t include the price. The first thing I do with any sales letter is to scroll to the bottom and check it.

@Evan, ahh yes procrastination! Nowadays I know that when I find myself procrastinating about something business wise its my internal emotional guidance system warning me that I’m heading towards something that I don’t want! Then I sit down and figure out what I don’t like about whatever it is I am procrastinating about.

@Christine, I see your point about offering the customer the full information and answering all of there questions but I would much prefer to do that via separate links - a Faq page, a testimonials page, a further details page and so on. That way those that hate sales letters can get the important info at a glance and those that really need more information can get that also but without all the scrolling!

@Eamon, my thoughts exactly and so much less stress that way isn’t it? hehe

@Scott, yes absolutely - if I had to build a sales page I would need to hire a copywriter to do it. As I said in reply to Christine though, I think there are other ways of providing the customer with all the info they need without having to put it on one huge linear page.

Caroline, you rock. Keep standing up for your principles!

I can’t remember who said that the way most marketing seems to work is like trying to get married by going to a singles bar and proposing to everyone you see there. (Probably Seth, now that I think about it.) Dating–starting in a low-risk way and gradually progressing to a more meaningful relationship–isn’t just more enjoyable, it also works better.

Long-form sales letters are unattractive in part because they’re so DESPERATE. They’re based on the idea that they have one shot, and one shot only, to sell you this product. A smart permission campaign (not a spammy one, but a good one) takes the time to actually develop a conversation and build your trust. Much better results in the long haul.

Sonia Simone’s last blog post..Relationship Marketing Series #4: Show Up

@Sonia, lol I had never heard of that before, it’s quite funny.

I think it’s in Permission Marketing. Which you would *love*, you should read asap!

Sonia Simone’s last blog post..Relationship Marketing Series #4: Show Up

It’s really all about being true to yourself in business and your personal life. And thanks to you being true to yourself while creating your most recent Ebook, I was able to see Wordpress in an entirely different light.

I’ve often viewed blogging as a pretty laborious way to create affiliate sites but thanks to your ’set and forget it’ way of creating niche blog sites which focused on the static pages aspect, I am able to consider the blogging structure as a more profitable model to conduct real business online.

I know for a fact that if ‘Money’ was your only thought or object as many hardcore IMers do while you created your ebook, you would have undoubtedly left something critical out of the book.

Both You and Courtney Tuttle are really class acts online as you teach others with your concern first.

Kind of sounds like Mass Control:)

Really give value up front first and receive monetary rewards afterward.

A Sincere Thanks!